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00:00A lot of what young lawyers are not happy practicing law. Would love to go work for the commission the FBI. How did you do that . Honestly I got incredibly lucky. You said that players have depression and melancholy. They're no more immune from mental illness than any other sector of our society. You encourage your players to be involved in social media. It's in our business interests to demonstrate to our fans and the greater community. These are multi-dimensional people. Would you fix your time please. People wouldn't recognize me if my tie was fixed but it just seems so sweet. All right . I don't consider myself a journalist. Nobody else but consider myself a journalist. I began to take on the life of being an interviewer even though I have a day job running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership. What is it that makes somebody tick . You have been the commissioner since 2014 and you had spent 22 years at the NBA office and before that and before that you were a graduate of the two best schools to go to in combination Duke University and the University of Chicago Law School right . Where did what you happen to go to right now. Right. So you can't do any better than that. So let's just start with the NBA today and how it's doing and honestly since you've been the commissioner the revenues are up ticket sales are up. The owners heat value of their teams is up by about three times. So are you adequately paid for the job you're doing. Do you think today the NBA is seems to be at its peak and right now it's very popular all over the world what do you think it is that NBA basketball is so popular around the world whereas our major league baseball and professional football isn't quite as global a sport . Well I think part of part of the reason is that it's been an Olympic sport since the 1930s. I think that's made a big difference in that it's a sport that has been played around the world it was actually invented by Christian missionaries in James Naismith was a Christian missionary and the game was shortly after it was an event in Springfield Massachusetts brought to China. And so it's been global since its earliest days. And and I think when you think of it the two most popular global sports I don't think it's an accident that both involve round balls when you kick in when you shoot use your hands. And I think it's almost something evolutionary about it about round balls and I think most people even if you're not a basketball player if you know whether you're balling up paper and shooting it into a garbage can or if you're a little kid I have a young daughter when she sees a ball she she kicks it or she picks it up and she throws it. So today. Are there any more franchise that might be for sale by the way. Certainly not that I'm aware that they're where I'm OK but some of the people that I've bought these franchises have done extremely well on people bought. I think that let's say the 76 was or bought a few years ago for three or four hundred million dollars the bucks for maybe four or five hundred million dollars. And when Steve Ballmer came in and paid two billion dollars for the Clippers where all the other owners happy because it made their free their team look more valuable or not. Yes they were happy and today but. And since Steve bought the Clippers two teams have sold for more than he paid. The Houston Rockets and the Brooklyn Nets. So one of the most difficult things you had to do after you became the commissioner was to in effect ban the then owner of the L.A. Clippers. And was that a tough decision for you. Yes. I mean I think people may not realize it but he's the only owner who is ever permanently been banned from a sport. And it's difficult because I in essence work for the owners I work for the owners collectively I don't work for any one owner but my job is to do what's in the best interest the league and its people hear me remember that the team that came out that recording for which he was banned came out in the middle of the night. L.A. Times I was in New York so I didn't hear it till Saturday morning and he was banned on Tuesday. So I mean he received NBA style due process. But I think in most walks of life people you know think that from beginning to end that was for days as was remarkable. I think he paid probably less than one hundred million dollars when he bought the team many many years earlier was in San Diego than I know that's the way you look at it. But he made a big profit . I know. So my view is ise I don't think frankly from his standpoint he's an extraordinarily wealthy guy. And you know I don't think his reaction was. Look how much money I just made the team was worth that regardless of what the family didn't call you up and say thank you for doing that. No I didn't do that. OK. So I understand that's how you look at it private equity. So one of the controversial things in college basketball has been the so-called one and done situation where college high school players go to college for one year more or less and then they get drafted into the NBA. Are you in favor of continuing that one and done policy and what would you change it to if you did change it. It's interesting when so when I first became commissioner five years ago I announced that I thought the minimum age for entering the NBA should be 20 instead of 19 roughly eleven years ago. We change it from 18 to 19 and that has to be collectively bargain with our players association so that's an area where I don't have the usual lateral right to make a decision. I'd say then once I became commissioner and and and became more aware of how the one and done situation actually worked in an operation sort of how the recruiting worked. Then there's obviously been some very high profile criminal proceedings around sort of college sports right now . And then in the middle of that Mark Emmert the head of the NCAA appointed a commission that included what was chaired by Condoleezza Rice to look at lots of issues involving college sports but particularly to focus on the one and done situation. And ultimately Condoleezza Rice and her commission recommended to the NBA and our players association that we return to the 18 year old entry age and I would say that that had a huge impact on me. That together with a better understanding of what is happening to these top players in that it's hard even to see it as a full year in many cases in college most of them leave once the tournament is over. I've changed my position at 18. The players association has historically been that it should be a team. But there are a bunch of issues that need to be worked through between us and the players association so it's something we're in active discussion here was the way it went. It's a few years away. I think also if we were to make the change I think the first season that would make sense to make that change for is 2022 in part because that's the current class that's just in essence finished their freshman year in high school and the cohort is pretty well known. I mean lots of these young men may move from you know 10th projected pick to third projected pick . But but there aren't that many surprises in the cohort. And so if there was no longer an issue of eligibility because remember now because of N.C. double wait and see and see DeLay regulations we can't be involved with that cohort of players right now. So if the rule were to change we and our players association USA Basketball other groups would work much more directly with those young players to prepare them for the NBA . To me the one and done after they finished the NCAA tournament they're not finishing their classes. I don't want to say that's the case for all schools but it's the case with many of those players understandably because the moment they fit. Look I think that's the whole hypocrisy in a way of the one and done program those top players are being recruited by those schools as the best path to being a top draft pick in the NBA. So once they once they finish their collegiate career after one season they are fully focused on preparing for the NBA draft. So whether or not they're still going to some classes. And remember I mean just to put it in context for a player coming into for a top player coming into the NBA let's say a top 10 pick that's going to come into next year's draft. Given our pay scale now and assuming the NBA continues to prosper and assuming that player stays healthy and and plays around where the expectation is that player will play that player just in salary alone is gonna make well over two hundred million dollars. So let's talk about that. So this is the stakes. It's it's hard it's hard. I think if you were that parent or guardian to say that that player it's more important that you go to three more classes as opposed to preparing for such a critically important decision I think it I think that's where the hypocrisy lies . Would you like to own a piece of the betting profits in the league not the profits. I think our proposal is. I mean it's been a bit controversial but you know we've proposed that we receive something that that I've called an integrity fee your referees are they seem to be in pretty good shape there sometimes they're not 20 years old but they seem to be you require them to exercise a lot. They don't see that Potbelly bellies they seem to be in good shape. They hope that's not the best you can say about them. Well they look when they say they know the rules don't have a pot belly. Well they seem to be in front for guys their age everything to be in pretty good shape . But I think. Are there women and referees. Yeah absolutely by the way that we have we have three female referees right now . And I think it's an area frankly where I've acknowledged that I'm not sure how it was that it remained so male dominated for so long because it's an area the game where the physically certainly there is no benefit to being a man as opposed to a woman when it comes to refereeing and in fact you know we're now in terms of the last group of referees that we hired into the league and they came from our development league as is called our G League Two of the last five officials that came in were women and no. And the goal is going forward it should be roughly 50 50 of new officials entering the league. So let's talk about one serious issue that I didn't really address before . You've said that players have depression and melancholy and they feel isolated. Can you explain how somebody is making 50 million dollars a year. They seem to be well respected by everybody. Why are they so depressed and isolated. Well in all seriousness what I've said is that when I in talking about our players I said there are no more immune from mental illness than any other sector of our society. And I think I'm sure people in this room know families firsthand that regardless of how much money you're making or your position in life or your family that in some cases it's chemical in some cases environmental but that it cuts across you know all socio economic groups. And and what's changing though in our league and and and again I think this is it's it's wonderful that that players are now willing to talk about these things we had two high profile players DeMar De Rosen when he's still with the Raptors and Kevin Love on the Cleveland Cavaliers who came out publicly and said they were suffering from depression and had issues with anxiety you know and I know firsthand they weren't the first players in our league suffering with issues like those but they were certainly the first players while they were current players in the NBA to talk about it. And I think what what and I've heard this from so many mental health professionals that when you really goes to the heart of your question when people who are perceived as having everything and then especially in something in professional sports where there's a certain macho ism associated with it and a certain perceived toughness that and I think that the stigma historically has been suck it up. Right. And you're not tough if you're dealing with something that's not physical and where you know when originally are junior basketball programs we're literally just about basketball skills like keep your elbow in and shoot this way and that's how you play defense and then we morph those programs into more about physical fitness in addition to basketball skills. And now in the last year we've added a mental wellness component. It's been incredibly well-received by people throughout the country. You know who hoop because I know from the letters we get from the mental health professionals we work with that kids are now coming in and saying wow this NBA players able to you know raise their hand and say you know I'm suffering I need help. You know regular kids feel comfortable doing that. Well if you are that's a close the Supreme Court has said that sports betting is more or less going to be legal. Essentially it's legal. So are you worried that in the 1950s and so on to college sports we had sports betting shaving before because of the odds or related to the point spread. Are you worried about that in the NBA. I'm always worried that we could have a scandal of any kind . Certain. Certainly one involving sports betting. I think that we are better off with a regular regulated betting framework than keeping it all underground and illegal and I know firsthand as the league that you know it's the Supreme Court decision has only been within the last year and now something like eight states have now legalized sports betting. My preference would be that there would be a consistent federal framework because of your league and you're potentially dealing with 50 different states and all their different requirements it becomes a huge burden for the business and it's also a bit of a race to the bottom among the states sometimes from a regulatory standpoint but putting that aside in terms of our concern that like any public market just that you think a NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange part of their ability to to ferret out illegal activities from the algorithms that that show when there's deviations that that that caused their computers to to you know issue red flags and say is something aberrational as happened here when everything's illegal other than having in essence tipping services and relationships we can't know those things so . So I think it's better that it be transparent regulated and controlled and authenticated and this way also people are betting with their credit cards. So you know who they are and there's it's been not only legal and obviously the state of Nevada for a long time but in four decades in Europe and I've learned a lot from our counterparts soccer leagues because they're they've worked and lived and regulated betting frameworks for a long time and they have much better controls than we do. What would you like to own a piece of the betting profits in the league not the profits. I think our proposal is . I mean it's been a bit controversial but you know we've proposed that we receive something that that I've called an integrity fee and some people said oh that's a euphemism for you just getting a royalty and I'm saying all right call it a royalty. You know my view is this this year the NBA will spend roughly eight billion dollars creating the NBA. I mean we'll generate around 9 billion and we spend about 8 billion. And my feeling is as the creators of the intellectual property and the organization in which the burden of regulation has been imposed on us by the states I mean again this is you know that the Supreme Court did what it did and now states are doing what they're doing. Legalizing sports betting they are now imposing a set of requirements on us in terms of how do they expect us to protect the integrity of the product. And so my view is we should get a fee not off the profits because I don't want anyone to think in any way that we're incentivized for a particular team to win or for a game to go or for a particular score or for you know seven games instead of six games or whatever else. But yes I feel as a business matter we should share in the proceeds . David Stern was a spectacular Commissioner by everybody's account. He did it for 30 years I think he retired when he was like 72. So were you when he was sixty five sixty six sixty seven sixty eight sixty nine seventy. Did you say David maybe I'm ready. Did you ever give him a little push or how did that have never never never . How do you get to be NBA commissioner. Really. You I mean did you grow up saying I want to be NBA commissioner. I didn't grow up wanting to be the commissioner. I don't even think I had any sense of what to do. But you did not go to Duke on a basketball scholar. I definitely didn't. And I'm pretty sure that when even when I went to law school I if somebody asked me what the NBA commissioner did I would've said he hands out he hands out rings and you know and sets the schedule. I wouldn't really have even understood the junior graduate if the universe of Chicago Law School you clerked for a federal judge. I did and you went to crevasse when a more well-known Wall Street firm . And then how did you go from there to the NBA. Because a lot of what young lawyers were not happy practicing law I would love to go work for the commissioner of the NBA. How did you do that . Honestly I got incredibly lucky. I had worked at crevasse for about two years and decided that I was working on it at the time . One of capacity clients was time warner and I was doing working on a lot of media cases at the time for HBO in particular and I became fascinated with the media business and while I was working on a particular litigation. I was following what was happening in sports media and the move of sports to cable television. Really it was Ted Turner in essence through TV s and then AT & T who was leading that charge and David Stern then the commissioner was at the forefront of that movement. And David Stern had worked at Proskauer New York which was the same law firm that my father had worked at. And I didn't know David but I wrote him a letter and asked him if he could give me some advice about transitioning from law into a media job at the time having written the letter not even thinking about working at the NBA or understanding what that this was something I could do at the NBA and make a long story short he gave me he he you know this is pre email he hit. I wrote him a letter an old fashioned letter his assistant called me a few weeks later said he can see you on whatever date. I went over I met with him for a half hour. He gave me some advice which I didn't follow. And then about a month later he called me and said What are you up to and he said I have an idea . And after a series of meetings he hired me as his assistant and that was my first call. If you got a letter from a young lawyer today what would you seek. I kind of nice pass it to our H.R. department and said David Stern. David Stern was a spectacular Commissioner by everybody's account. He did it for 30 years I think he retired when he was like 72. So were you when he was sixty five sixty six sixty seven sixty eight sixty nine seven. Did you say David maybe I'm ready. Did you ever give him a little push or how did that have never never never . And again I was being commissioner of the NBA is my sixth job at the NBA. And so for five of those jobs I worked directly for David and he gave me enormous opportunities a brilliant guy. I ended up running an entity called NBA Entertainment. I was interested in the media business sort of the television and media and then became the Internet arm of the NBA. Many years later I became the deputy commissioner of the NBA. But ultimately you know David could recommend me but it required that the team owners voting me that's how the commissioner is determined. And he sort of set his own timeline for when he was going to step down. And I think also I was very fortunate that the league was in great shape at that moment. I assume there could've been a scenario where things weren't going so well they might have looked outside the NBA. But again I I owe a lot to David and I was very fortunate to be in that job. So what do you think is the leadership trait that you had that enabled David to think you deserve to be the commissioner I think you know nothing necessarily so unique to me I was willing to work very hard and I did work very hard over the years. I certainly love the sport of basketball. I think that much of my job now is spent on media. It's the primary revenue source for the NBA so the fact that I developed an expertise in media over the years was very important I'd say. I think while it's certainly being a lawyer is a prerequisite to being NBA commissioner and no different than being a lawyer I see in your job. But I think you and I would say the same thing I think. I think it said the same thing. Having gone to law school learning those skills has been very beneficial. A large part of my job is being a professional negotiator whether it's collective bargaining whether it's commercial relationships that we enter into so I think it was all of those skill a lot of your media today and this is contrasted with the other leagues as social media. You encourage your players to be involved in social media. You encourage LeBron James who your best known players to really be if not controversial to have public views . Why do you why do you do that it hasn't been helpful to the NBA . I don't I don't certainly don't encourage them to be controversial I encourage them to be genuine and earnest about their views and I make sure that they know that that within certain boundaries frankly I mean I think there's still more round issues of decency not particularly political speech. But I want them to know that they should feel safe. Frankly as NBA players I ultimately think it's in our business interests to demonstrate to our fans and the greater community. These are multi-dimensional people that earlier on in my career at the NBA I think when we had the biggest issues as a league and this was before there was that opportunity with social media for players to have that ability to to show who they are directly to fans they were portrayed in many cases as being one dimensional people they were just sort of just ball players and people didn't understand you know that where they were from and what they did what their other interests were in or if they were if they were from other countries they were just from China. There was no sense Well it's a big place. They're from Beijing and this is what they did and this is how they grew up. And I think social media as a complement to the traditional media which is very helpful to allows them to show who they really are and I think it helps to engage fans and our best player in the NBA . There's many great players in the NBA David. And now you have recently married couple of years ago four years ago a year ago and now you have a baby who is 2 years old little little over two and is she interested in basketball. Absolutely. And she watches and that's why I got to make sure the WNBA prospers . She's my wife is tall I'm tall she she watches basketball games with me and I may get some tips from our other Coach K here in the audience. And I would love to coach her one day. I want and she loves the game I love her. You're going to get me and you're going to stay in this position for the foreseeable future you're not going to go buy a team go to private equity nothing like that you're gonna stay. No plans to go anywhere. All right thank you very much for an interesting kind of CAC .

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The David Rubenstein Show: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver talks to David Rubenstein about his early career under former Commissioner David Stern, the "One and Done" policy of bringing college players into the NBA early, sports betting, depression among players and much more in this interview, recorded on May 9th at the Economic Club of Washington. (Source: Bloomberg)

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