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00:00This is my kitchen table and also my filing system over much of the past three decades. I've been an investor the highest quality of mankind. I've often thought is private equity. And then I started interviewing on my watch here. Those I know how to do something. I've learned in doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. I asked him how much he wanted. He said 250. I said fine I didn't negotiate with him. I did no due diligence. I have something I'd like to sell and how they stay there. You don't feel inadequate now because the only the second wealthiest men. Is that right. One of the most interesting and optimistic leaders I met in recent years is Senator Tammy Duckworth. She grew up in poverty in Thailand in Hawaii. But she chose to become an Army National Guard helicopter pilot and did so in Iraq when her helicopter was shot down. She lost the use of her legs. Ultima recovered got elected to the United States Senate after serving in the Obama administration as well. She's now the mother of two young children and is happily engaged in the life of being a United States senator. It's an incredible story. Well today we're gonna be in conversation with Senator Tammy Duckworth who is a senator from Illinois and has an extraordinary life story an extraordinary book that's now out called Everyday as a Gift about her life in Asia her life in the United States her life in Iraq and her life in the Senate. Among other things. So thank you very much for joining us Senator. It's so good to be on. Thanks for having me. Did you ever expect when you were growing up in Asia and not a wealthy situation that you would one day be a United States senator a Blackhawk pilot in Iraq and then be considered to be vice president he states. Was that ever in your dreams was a young girl growing up in Thailand. No. Wasn't even in my dreams 20 months ago. No. I wanted my childhood dream was to become an ambassador. I wanted to join the foreign service and spend my time stamping the back of people's passports. Let's take you through your life story. So for those who haven't read the book and I highly recommend that they do. Your mother was is from Chinese Thai bank background. You grew up in Thai. You were born in Thailand. Your mother is a Thai but she is from Chinese ancestry. Ancestry is that right. Yes. And your father was a American serviceman and his family has been here since the first two. Duckworth showed up sometime in the sixteen hundreds as indentured servants to a British lord. And they fought in the Revolutionary War. Well they did. They break even fought before that. They fought in the French and Indian wars although we suspect that they were volunteered by their men by their lords probably didn't volunteer themselves. But you're born in Thailand and you grew up initially there. Was it difficult though. You're the product of a mixed race you would say and there's obviously some discrimination then and obviously today as well. Did you feel that discrimination when you were growing up because people young showed up and say well your father's an American or is that was not a problem. No it was a problem. I was you know I'm bi racial and I think a lot of bi ratio folks. So I will understand what I'm talking about when they read the book. But I didn't fit in in Southeast Asia because I was half white. And when I was in Asia I was seen as half white. But then when I come to the U.S. I'm on the mainland. I'm seen as more Asian. And so it's sort of the unique Asian experience to always be considered to be an other. And you really see that with the API experience today. But when I was in Asia yeah my my cousins my Thai cousins would make fun of me and you know call me names and all sorts of stuff. But that was a common experience post to Vietnam in Southeast Asia. Well your father had a hard time finding a job. And so in the end you had to live on food stamps and you also had to get a job for yourself. And you were selling roses on the streets and other things like that. And why is that right. Yes. So we basically ended up on food stamps. Thank goodness for the school lunch and school reference subsidized meals programs and otherwise. My brother and I probably wouldn't have eaten many days. And at a certain point in time I just out of desperation at 16 even though my dad forbade me because he wanted me to focus on school I just went and got a job on the beaches of Waikiki and I did everything from handing out flyers I had to choose between. I write about this in the book. I had to like on the minute on the moment decide whether the person would get a booze cruise flyer or a romantic dinner cruise flyer. And I would get you know like a nickel for every one of those that actually was brought back to buy a ticket. And then I also sold roses out of a bucket by the side of the road. I did whatever I could to scrape together money so that we could eat. And you went to the University of Hawaii is that right. I went to the original Hawaii. And then when I finished that I returned to my childhood dream of wanting to become an ambassador. And I moved to Washington D.C. to attend George. Tom Keene University to enter the international affairs program at the time GW had the highest successful pass rate for the Foreign Service exam. So I applied there. So when you came to Washington you went to GW to get your graduate degree. Did you say you know someday I'm going to be United States senator. No. Someday I'm going. What I want to do is someday I'm going to become a foreign service officer. I'm going to take this foreign service exam. But I in the meantime had got a job at the Smithsonian. There is an Asian student fellowship. And I won a fellowship. And I was working in the National Natural History Museum when my boss there said you know you really should get a D and you really should think about moving to Illinois and go to attend Northern Illinois University. So you did apply. You got and you move there and it changed your life obviously when you were there. When you're studying why did you decide to join the military. Some of my friends in my classes were military officers or veterans. And they said you know why did you go off to basic training. You earn a little bit of money for the summer. You won't spend it because there's no way the drill sergeants are going to give you any free time to spend any of the money you earn. And you're gonna come home. You're going to never know more about the military and you want to go you know become a diplomat. You should learn a little bit about military power. So I thought yeah why don't I just go and go do that. Well you're sure you join the military but why did you decide you wanted to be a helicopter pilot and a Blackhawk helicopter pilot to boot. Why didn't you say I'll take a easier job. Well I thought obviously to become a linguist David because I spoke Thai and I spoke Indonesian and I studied French until through college. But while I was being getting ready to be commissioned you sat down and you write down what you would like to do in the army and then the army decides what they want you to do. And I remember sitting in the classroom ISE the only woman in my ROTC unit when the instructor said all right you could write down whatever you want but whatever it is that the army needs that's what you're going to do. So guys you have to put down combat jobs even if you are an accounting major and you want to become a finance officer. You can put down your request to become a finance officer but you still have to put down infantry armor artillery. A certain percentage of your choices must be combat positions except for Duckworth. And he called me out specifically except for Duckworth. Women are allowed in combat. So Duckworth you put down whatever you want. And I remember thinking that this was just inherently unfair because not for me but for the guys I was in to get equal pay for an equal rank. But the fact that I didn't have to face the same risk was wrong. And then I did my research and I realized that women could serve in the air defense artillery and in aviation with helicopter pilots being the most likely job combat job open to women. So I put that down as my first choice took the aptitude test scored off the charts on it and that's how I became a helicopter pilot. OK so you're in the Army National Guard and you've learned how to be a helicopter pilot but there is no need for you to go to Iraq. But you actually volunteered. You said I want to go into combat and I want to go fly. Helicopters in Iraq is not unusual. Well what I said which is not unusual was. My unit can't go off to war without me and I had just finished a three year stint in command of the Mai Mai Mai Blackhawk unit Bravo Company of the Mad Dogs. And I just finished being their commander and I was their commander all through 9/11. And I've been preparing them for war knowing knowing once 9/11 happened that was very likely that we would go to war. I always start with me in Afghanistan and so I knew the unit was going to eventually go. And one month after I was rotated out of my command position the unit was cut off. And that's when I caught that battalion commander and said sir I can't be the only Army aviator in the Illinois National Guard standing safely at the state headquarters waving goodbye. I'm going to go. How can you take me. This is I. There's no way. And it's about being part of the unit. And what did your husband and your your mother say when you said I'm going off into combat. I don't have to but I'm going to. My husband understood because he's a soldier as well. Mom of course did not understand. I just told her mom I have to do this. This is this is what I'm supposed to do. My dad did not say much at all but he understood meaning he didn't question me you know. He was a career military officer as well. So how did you go from crashing a helicopter get pulled out of that and get another helicopter to pick you up and get her doctors within an hour. How did that all happen. They they got me out of there just so that they would bring a body back for my family to bury. And so you get over to Iraq and you you're flying Blackhawks over there. And there was a mission to pick up somebody but you didn't have to go on that mission. It wasn't an essential mission is that correct. No we didn't have to. And it was on our way back from that mission headed back to the lot when we were hit. OK. So you didn't have to be in Iraq and you didn't have to accept that admission but you did both of those things and then you were hit by an RPG is that right. Yes. We were hit first by small arms fire right outside my right door. I swore in my good army language. And just as I reached forward to store the target on our G.P.S. there was a big explosion in my lap where the RPG basically came up through the chin bubble and landed on my lap and and exploded. So the pilot was trying to land it despite the fact that it's in trouble. He does manage to land it but your legs were blown off. Is that essentially what happened. So the cockpit was filled with smoke. I did not know. I didn't have legs. You know throughout the day you feel your feet. Right. You don't look down to see if they're there or not. I felt my feet. I kept trying to fly the aircraft not knowing that I was in actual fact passing in and out of consciousness. I would come to try to fly the aircraft pass out come to try to fly the aircraft pass out. And I was really frustrated that the aircraft was not responding to the inputs I was putting into the instruments into the into the flight controls. But that's because I didn't have legs. So how did you go from crashing a helicopter get pulled out of that and get another helicopter to pick you up and get to doctors within an hour. How did that all happen. Well first off we didn't crash which is good. We landed at Dani Burger Land at the aircraft and that was critical. We always fly with two aircraft together for instance exactly like this that you'd always have a backup to help you out if you get in trouble. And then they came back for what they thought was my body. So I never received attorney and I never received any first aid. They assumed that I was dead. They they got me out of there just so that they would bring a body back from my family to bury. They got you out and you get to in effect a medical treatment facility and they try to keep you alive. And what did they do to keep you alive during that period time. Well the first thing that happens is Sergeant Chris Fierce who is my door gunner who is my my door gun on the right side and my crew chief in the rescue bird realizes that I'm still alive because he feels more and more blood on the deck of the aircraft and he realizes that he has a trench coat on. No one should be bleeding. So why is there more and more blood. And he realized oh my God Tammy is still bleeding. Her heart is still pumping. So he declines treatment from the med evac bird. When we make it put into the Matt Miller aircraft and the medic comes to him he says go take care of her. So when you get to Walter Reed eventually you're on morphine and lots of other drugs for a while. And eventually when you wake up when do you realize that you've lost your legs and maybe the use of your your right arm. I knew that I was wounded. I knew that I'd been hurt but I also knew that I was safe and I was in excruciating pain. And I asked my husband to ask the doctor if I could have some Tylenol because my feet really hurt. And that's when he had to go out and get the doctor. And the two of them came in and told me actually there was no Tylenol they could give me for my seat because I didn't have feet anymore. In fact I didn't have legs and my arm waist in case in what's called an X fix it's like a metal cage kept immobile. And actually they kept it pretty covered. So I couldn't see it because it's pretty badly mangled. And I would know potentially things that are now as if everything we've talked about isn't amazing. You decided you want to go back to Iraq as a helicopter pilot again. Guys are still over there. My unit was still downrange and I felt tremendous guilt that I was in a safe hospital in the United States. And everybody was calling me a hero which I didn't think I was. And everybody was treating me with kid gloves and my buddies were still getting shot at. That's not that's no soldier no service member no troop wants to be. Safe some place when your buddies are still in harm's way. And I just wanted to get back to my unit. You eventually retire from the military and then you get into involved in a number of very interesting things to go through them quickly. You became the head of the veterans organization in Illinois. Is that right. Yes. But I did not retire. I actually President Bush started a program that allowed it allowed wounded warriors to continue to serve. And then I ran for Congress and lost. And then I became head of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs a member of the governor's cabinet. And then President Obama when he was elected me to serve at the federal V.A. Undersecretary Shinseki. And all this time I was due in the National Guard and then I ran again for Congress and became a congresswoman. Winning in 2012. And then an opportunity came along to run for the United States Senate. Did you hesitate and say geez I lost once for running for Congress I have a safe seat now. You say no I really want to do this. Well I very much hesitated. I was actually on maternity leave with my eldest daughter. I had her in November of 2014. And Illinois's primary is very early. It's in March. And so. I had to make a decision and announcement by March of by March 2015. If I wanted to run for Senate and so I was still on maternity leave I didn't win. I thought I'm not going to run for Senate. I just had this baby. I'm home on maternity leave. But then I looked at it and I realized that should I ever want to run for the United Senate. This was the time to run. This was the opportunity. And so I I took the chance. Now let's talk about the United States Senate. Is it pleasurable to be United States senators. Seems like they're always fighting. They don't have compromises and nothing is ever done bipartisan anymore. Is it enjoyable or not quite as enjoyable as you hoped it would be. You know it's challenging but I love my job because of what I get to do. It's a tough job. But you know I get to serve my people my constituency and I get to see the results of my work. I passed legislation that now requires lactation rooms and all of our nation's airports because when I have my daughter and I was traveling I was told well you want to breastfeed your daughter if you will or if you want to express breast milk you've got to go do it in a candy cup stall off the public toilet which I thought was disgusting. So I worked for a few years and I passed a law. Now when I go through airports I see these lactation pods and lactation rooms. I think wow I did that. I just made the work. You know all these moms who were traveling and working outside the home might just make their lives a little bit easier. And that's a great privilege. It's a great privilege to be able to represent my state and that my constituents believed in me enough to do this job. And so it's tough. I'm not going to kill you. It's tough. It's a lot of work. There's no work life balance. I never feel like I'm senator enough when I'm with my kids and when I'm with you when I'm at work. I don't think I'm mom enough for my kids. But it ain't a bad gig. You've been a leader in the environmental area. Do you think we're making progress on on climate change or do you think we are still way behind where we should be. Well we're significantly behind where we should be. I'm glad that as soon as he was sworn into office the first thing President Biden did was to rejoin the Paris Accord. I thought that was significant. What I think we should do is have a date for a carbon neutral future and then let us let the market get us there and be in all of the above you know policy in terms of how we get there. And then we're gonna have to look at a range of energy sources to get to carbon neutral. But as far as I understand who cares. As long as you get to carbon neutral and there's been a lot of attacks on Asian Americans in the United States recently physical attacks among other things. So when you were growing up did you suffer it when you're in the United States kind of discrimination or attacks or anything like this. And what do you think can be done to ameliorate this problem. I think most Asians have this sense of otherness. And of course I felt that especially here on the mainland U.S. I didn't feel it so much in Hawaii where that's a majority minority population there. But on the mainland certainly I mean I've had people Americans come up to me and say things to me like where are you really from. Even while always wearing our nation's uniform with the American flag on my shoulder and U.S. Army on my chest over my heart. And it's the most ridiculous questions like what do you mean. Where am I really from. I'm from here. I'm American just like you are. You know that is you almost uniquely an American an Asian-American AAPI experience where that happens. You talk to any Asian-American to tell you that that's what has happened to them. Now not too long ago President Biden when he was former vice president of the United States considered you to be vice president on his ticket. And I'm just curious. Any disappointment you were not selected and would you ever consider running for president yourself. Oh my gosh. You know I am no. No regrets that I was not selected. It was an interesting process to go through. I'm glad that I went through the vetting process. And I'm very pleased that I made it pretty far in the process. But I got to say that I'm really happy being a U.S. senator. I and I have more control over my schedule or what I want to do. And really I could be happier. I had hoped to stay in the Senate for a very long time. So since President Biden has been president has he called you for advice. You get to see him very much. You go to the Oval Office. I assume you go more than under President Trump. Yes. I didn't get to go at all under President Trump. And in fact I'd never been in the Oval Office until President Biden became president. And I am I've actually had two visits in two weeks just earlier and just last month in April. So I was there. He asked me to join him for a discussion on manufacturing in the United States. I've worked a lot on the renaissance of manufacturing from the Midwest. Illinois is a major manufacturing state. We have more tool and die manufacturing than many other parts of the country. We're number one. And number two depending on you know who's got the biggest order that week. And I also was therefore in a meeting on API representation and issues of hate crimes against API. So yes I've had multiple trips there already. So the life of a senator is one where you're in the Senate during the week but typically weekends or every other weekend you have to go back to Illinois and you have to go meet with constituents and so forth. And then you've got two young children. You got your husband. I mean how do you have time for almost anything. I don't I just I just I my. At work or I am doing something with my kids you know you just you make it work. So in the book I talk about how Senator Gellibrand gave me really good advice to set some some boundaries. So I have some boundaries that I have set up that we just don't mess with. And I have also asked my colleagues to abide by them and they've come to respect them and they've actually been very supportive. So for example I don't take meetings in person before 930 because I put my daughter on the school bus like get her to school. Her school starts at 9. This has all changed a little bit during Claudette obviously. But you know like always that I am the one who would drive my daughter to school. That's my time with her. And if I have to be in Illinois and if I or California where wherever else or Singapore Iraq I will catch the red eye and I will stay up all night as long as I can make it home so that I can be here to take my daughter to school. You can see obviously from talking to you and from reading your book you have a very outgoing personality but you had a tragic situation in your life. How do you maintain your optimism and such a friendly outlook. I mean do you regret having gone to Iraq because you didn't have to go. How do you look at that and put that in perspective for people that haven't have not suffered as much as you have. Well I. No I do not regret going to Iraq. It's one of the proudest things I've done in my life. I as a soldier and you you know when and when you're called to serve. You go. But you know for me it's just always been about looking out for the best of things that I've always had kind of a wry sense of humor. And you know it's it's sort of an army aviation sort of dry you know just be able to laugh at yourself I think and make the best of it. And listen for me to look back with regret and to feel bad about having been in Iraq and getting hurt would have been a real slap in the face to the men who saved me. Really. And I mean I'm not going to do that. And that's why the book is called Every Day is a Gift. They gave me the gift of life that day. And so I owe them you know to live the best life that I can every single day. Have you ever thought of bottling your happiness. And you know you could make a lot of money if you bottled your happiness. Yeah you know what it is. It's just gratefulness. I should have died in that field in Iraq that day in Iraq is my NRA and those men who saved my life or my north star. And frankly even in the toughest of times even when you know I just think this is crazy. You know like like January 6 with the insurrection I get up the next day and I keep on going because I think of what they did for me in that field. They didn't leave me behind. They they they kept fighting to get me back to my family. And the best I can do is is keep trying.

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The David Rubenstein Show: Sen. Tammy Duckworth

Senator Tammy Duckworth, a Democrat from Illinois, talks about why she joined the Army, losing her legs in Iraq, working with President Joe Biden, and trying to pass a new infrastructure bill in Congress. She is on the latest episode of "The David Rubenstein Show: Peer-to-Peer Conversations." The interview was recorded May 5, 2021. (Corrected to fix audio issue throughout episode) (Source: Bloomberg)

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