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00:00What is it like the sentiment your in the underlying technology, your about getting new rails for financial for traditional finance to run on enable crypto could be more underlying efficient technological manner. People being put off coming to at the moment a little bit. I would have to say it is definitely lack of trust now in the space. There were a lot of people who are already distrustful of the space to begin with. And with all of these things that the drama that's happened in the last few months, they've they feel like they're going to equate that with the entire space. I'm in the middle. I see a lot of activity. I speak to all different types of partners, builders, exchanges, market makers. I can tell you it's actually really just a small percentage of these people. But these the small percentage of people have a lot of control because they're in large centralized entities. And these are the really bad actors. Most people are good. Speaking of large and centralized, that news about FTSE acts, not disclosing the names of the 50 creditors, the top 50. This is supposed to be an industry about trust. Is there a problem here to not know who those top 50 creditors are as a crypto native? I generally believe in full transparency and disclosing everything. But in the situation we're in right now, I almost feel like not disclosing a name is actually good because it could create bank runs at some of these places that are still operating well. Talk to us therefore, about what you worry in terms of contagion. You've talked about the lack of trust. You talked about the worry of a lack of transparency. Everyone's now looking at the exchange. They use all of the tokens that some of the exchanges have. Of course, they shoot themselves. Is contagion is it more shoes to drop? Do you think? So I think you guys are in the great job of covering Genesis in my seat. I actually think Genesis is a bigger issue in terms of the capital markets of crypto than even FTSE. Genesis was the largest lender out there. They've done on secure as well as colorized lending. There's really no one else doing that lending they without them in the markets. All the people in the value chain, all the companies like market makers who need to borrow in order to do market making, you're going to see liquidity get sapped out of the markets. Spreads widen. No investors want to come in and you have a vicious cycle. So the genesis is a very important part of the crypto capital markets. And therefore, what? How much does it set it back? If we do see a bankruptcy filing, for example, by such a juggernaut, such as Genesis many, many years, we're going to need some white knight to come in, maybe a traditional finance player who's dabble in this space and is willing to come in and take some risk. If you look at a lot of things out there in terms of instruments that trade there, there's clearly a different sentiment from the traffic community towards crypto versus the crypto native community. You can look at at the prices in terms of the futures curve. The CNE futures curve is out. Months are really negative for bitcoin and ethereal. Whereas the Perpetual's in the crypto native markets, which also undated. Futures are flatter. So it's not backwardation. What do you think about trades like that? You look at that CMC futures contract arbitrage. You look at what's happening with the grayscale. Big contrast. These are financial assets like any other financial asset right now. Is it a good moneymaking opportunity or is it too risky to trade? It's an incredible arbitrage opportunity that you can make. Twenty five percent on annualized basis. But the issue really is you can't find a counterpart to help you put that trade on because nothing is flowing in the markets right now. The largest lender out there has a trickle ripple effect that everyone else is not lending. So they're not lending counterparty is are not taking risk either. What does the crypto market look like without that kind of leverage anymore? We go back to the previous cycle. We're talking about 2015 to 2018. Leverage needs to be controlled. Leverage is not bad in every economy and every marketplace. You need lending and borrowing to some extent. Otherwise you don't have money growth. And we need some of that back into this market to get the markets going again. I'm interested in this talk of a traditional finance giant, maybe a side kind of crossover investor who's dabbled already, who could do that and have the will of the regulators, the will of, well, Washington on their side. Well, first of all, I think all the existing players, when this is all done, I think 80 percent of companies in this current crypto capital markets will be gone, 20 percent that's are still around. They're going to take a leadership role. They're going to work. They need to work with regulators and come up with good regulation, even if it's bad regulations. No regulation. And then you'll have perhaps banks come in to pick up the pieces and buy parts of the market structure because they'll be more comfortable and they'll inject a lot of liquidity or you have traditional market makers, whether it's Citadel coming in, they've dabbled in serial securities or a James Street or a well-known high frequency funds who are very adept in this market market making side. But what about the traditional players here? We reported this morning, for example, Apollo is looking to list a digital assets strategy on a block chain. You're doing something similar with a bunch of kind of properties, including KKR. So are they concerned, given the broader rhetoric around crypto? Because those tokens, your your block chain has a token as well. Everyone is a little concerned. I cannot say no one's concern. But with that said, even at the capital markets and crypto are broken, the technology is still continuing. So Apollo's announcement of raising a fund using a token ISE version of that, all the labs either launch token izing part of a KKR fund really shows that the technology and the innovation is going to continue and the benefits will accrue to the people who are in this space. And it's interesting. One of the conversations I had with Mike CAGNY, who's the CEO figure about this particular announcement, was that stable points could be an onboarding ramp for these private equity funds. Can that happen? Is there enough security in the stable point system as it exists today for it to be a theater essentially into the traditional financial system in a bigger way? Well, yes, in terms of the security and that's the ultimate benefit when you have multiple parties that need to exchange information and payment simultaneously. That's the real benefits of watching technology. So do you need that token in that sense, whether it's a stable point or a different token? That's the real benefits that you can provide to cutting costs and creating more efficiency in existing financial systems.

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